Legislature(2003 - 2004)

02/23/2004 02:49 PM Senate HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
            HJR 30-ELIMINATE SOCIAL SECURITY OFFSET                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR LYDA  GREEN  announced  that there  would  be a  work                                                             
session  until a  quorum was  present.   Chair Dyson  was not  in                                                               
Juneau due to travel difficulties  and Senator Davis was excused.                                                               
Present were Senator Wilken and  Vice Chair Green when the Senate                                                               
Health,  Education and  Social Services  Standing Committee  work                                                               
session convened at 2:49 p.m.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CARL GATTO,  sponsor  of HJR  30, explained  that                                                               
this  legislation  deals  with two  provisions  from  the  Social                                                               
Security  Act, the  Government Pension  Offset  and the  Windfall                                                               
Elimination Provision.   Historically, he said he  was old enough                                                               
to have  earned Social Security  in his  younger days and  he had                                                               
completed all of the requirements  to qualify for Social Security                                                               
before becoming a  state worker.  After becoming  a state worker,                                                               
Social Security  was able  to reduce the  benefit amount  owed to                                                               
him because  of the state not  being part of the  Social Security                                                               
system.   He told  members that  a lot of  people will  face this                                                               
situation  and  will   be  just  as  surprised   that  these  two                                                               
provisions exist.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO provided the following testimony:                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Briefly  the first  provision,  the Government  Pension                                                                    
     Offset really deals mostly with  the death of a spouse.                                                                    
     What  Social Security  has done  pretty  much in  these                                                                    
     provisions is  to say that  your survivor  benefit will                                                                    
     be reduced  by two  thirds of your  government pension.                                                                    
     In  other  words,  the  money   that  I  earned  in  my                                                                    
     government  pension, which  has  almost  nothing to  do                                                                    
     with Social  Security Administration, is  somehow going                                                                    
     to be  used in  the calculation  of my  Social Security                                                                    
     benefit.   What they will  do then,  in the event  of a                                                                    
     death  of  a  spouse,  is reduce  the  Social  Security                                                                    
     benefit by two thirds of  my government pension.  So by                                                                    
     example,  if  I  was  a  real  good  government  worker                                                                    
     earning a  lot of  money and got  a good  pension, it's                                                                    
     very  possible that  my  spouse would  get  zero of  my                                                                    
     Social  Security  benefit.    In fact  it's  likely  my                                                                    
     spouse would  get zero.   If my government  pension was                                                                    
     $3,000  they're  going  to say  '$2,000  of  that  will                                                                    
     offset  your Social  Security benefit.'   If  my Social                                                                    
     Security benefit  was less than $2,000,  my spouse gets                                                                    
     nothing.    She  gets  to  keep  my  $3,000  government                                                                    
     pension, but she  gets zero from Social  Security.  And                                                                    
     it works, of course, in the reverse.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO continued:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     The  other one  is  the Windfall  Profit Provision  and                                                                    
     that  essentially says  the same  thing in  a different                                                                    
     way ...  when I retire,  my Social Security  benefit is                                                                    
     reduced  by  a certain  amount  of  money up  to  sixty                                                                    
     percent,  based  on  what I  earned  in  my  government                                                                    
     pension.   Madam Chair, this  came as quite  a surprise                                                                    
     to me.  I currently get  a Social Security benefit.  My                                                                    
     benefit is  in the order of  $111 a month.   I'm glad I                                                                    
     am  not banking  on my  Social Security  benefit.   But                                                                    
     there  are  many people,  many  people  in a  situation                                                                    
     where they  absolutely depended upon a  Social Security                                                                    
     benefit.  And  so, what we have here in  [HJR 30] is to                                                                    
     ask our team  in Washington D.C. to  support the repeal                                                                    
     of  these  two  [provisions].   There  is  overwhelming                                                                    
     support right now  in Washington D.C. and  we'd like to                                                                    
     simply ask  our representatives  there to join  in that                                                                    
     support so  that we,  as one  of -  I think  fifteen or                                                                    
     sixteen  states that  are under  this situation  - will                                                                    
     not  have some  of the  older people  who are  retiring                                                                    
     looking   and  banking   on  this   benefit  and   then                                                                    
     discovering  that at  any moment,  at the  last second,                                                                    
     that it really will not be there.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR GREEN commented that  she was similarly surprised when                                                               
she recently came  across this same issue.   Before taking public                                                               
testimony,  she said  she presumed  witnesses were  testifying in                                                               
support of the HJR 30, and heard no response to the contrary.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JERRY  PATTERSON,  NEA-Alaska  Retired,  reported  that  the                                                               
problem was  extensive.  There  are about 7,000  retirees between                                                               
the ages  of 65  and 75,  who are  potentially affected  by this;                                                               
there are approximately  6,000 federal workers in  the state, and                                                               
about 11,000  people between the ages  of 55 and 65.   The coming                                                               
generation  will be  more affected  as the  problem grows,  so it                                                               
would be  prudent for Alaska to  have this repealed.   There is a                                                               
recruiting problem  concerning people recruited from  outside the                                                               
state; the  trigger is  to be  vested - which  is five  years for                                                               
state workers and  eight years for teachers - and  the trigger is                                                               
a small amount of service, yet the penalty is large.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SAM  TRIVETTE,  President of  Retired  Public  Employees  of                                                               
Alaska, representing people who have  retired from both state and                                                               
municipal   employment  in   Alaska,   related   that  prior   to                                                               
retirement, he had received a  calculation indicating how much he                                                               
would  receive upon  retirement; however,  since retirement  that                                                               
amount is  reduced by  $500 per  month.  He  said there  are over                                                               
20,000 retirees from  state or municipal government,  who are not                                                               
teachers and  who will be similarly  affected.  The loss  of that                                                               
income  translates into  a large  amount of  money that  won't be                                                               
spent  in Alaska's  economy.   In questioning  why this  bill was                                                               
passed, he  said it  was tied  to a  reappropriation bill  at the                                                               
last moment, and  "people, I don't think, frankly  knew what they                                                               
were getting into at the time."                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TRIVETTE  reported that  he  spoke  with a  Social  Security                                                               
expert and presented the scenario  of paying into Social Security                                                               
for over 25 years, before the state  went out - part of that time                                                               
was with  the private sector and  part was as a  state employee -                                                               
and of  paying the full  amount during that whole  time (payments                                                               
had not  been reduced).   If he had  simply quit working  when he                                                               
had  paid all  he had  to, and  didn't continue  working for  the                                                               
state,  he would  not be  getting this  reduction; he  would have                                                               
received that $500 per month.  He  said he had been a manager for                                                               
the  state  for  many  years  and it  was  difficult  to  recruit                                                               
employees.  The state informs  new employees that Social Security                                                               
will  be reduced  and this  is  "certainly no  incentive."   Many                                                               
people now getting ready to retire  don't even know that they are                                                               
going to be hit by this.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR GREEN  announced  that with  the  arrival of  Senator                                                               
Guess  there was  a quorum,  and  she called  the Senate  Health,                                                               
Education  and  Social  Services Standing  Committee  meeting  to                                                               
official  order  at  3:00  p.m.   Present  were  Senators  Guess,                                                               
Wilken, and Vice Chair Green.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MARIE   DARLIN,  legislative   chairman  for   the  National                                                               
Association of Retired Federal  Employees (NARFE), testified that                                                               
the association has worked for  repeal of these offsets since the                                                               
early 90s.   Many  of those  hurt the most  by this  are elderly,                                                               
widowed  women  who are  not  even  receiving much  from  federal                                                               
checks.  Many federal retirees  have not paid Social Security but                                                               
have paid  into the  civil service  retirement system  over those                                                               
years;  now the  new retirement  system does  not include  Social                                                               
Security since  the federal government  has changed  that option.                                                               
Those who  did pay Social  Security for whatever other  jobs they                                                               
may have had over their lifetime,  now find that it means nothing                                                               
regarding their pension.   NARFE wants this to be  done away with                                                               
as soon as possible because the  number of people hurt by this is                                                               
growing, and what was planned for is not going to be there.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. JOANNE  COTTLE, a  retired state  and federal  employee [with                                                               
NARFE}  draws Social  Security  and said  she  called the  Social                                                               
Security  Administration's "800"  number this  morning and  asked                                                               
how much  the monthly benefit would  be if she was  not a retired                                                               
federal and state  employee; it would be $590 a  month.  She told                                                               
members  that she  currently gets  $204 a  month because  of this                                                               
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR GREEN asked for the will of the committee.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GARY  WILKEN moved  to report HJR  30 [CSHJR  30(STA) am]                                                               
from committee with individual recommendations.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  GREEN acknowledged there  being no objection,  it was                                                               
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                

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